tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post1683242870478715146..comments2024-02-07T04:23:46.001-08:00Comments on BIGGER SPLASHES: John Maus, Art as Politics, and The Predicament of ChangeMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-47891445030852049582011-12-19T00:11:48.881-08:002011-12-19T00:11:48.881-08:00I would say on the contrary, you give them too lit...I would say on the contrary, you give them too little credit. The guys they send out to find bands are often very sly and manipulative and take a number of things into consideration. When money is concerned any big corporation always covers their ass. Sex Pistols are definitely an exception, but they were tame compared to other acts, and I regard songs like "Anarchy in the UK" in way to be kind of 'safe anarchy' and I doubt anyone went and burned down a police station while listening to it. <br /><br />I'd be all for John getting a massive audience, but there are several factors keeping this from happening.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-7777112782578102992011-12-18T18:58:21.907-08:002011-12-18T18:58:21.907-08:00You give them too much credit of thinking ahead, t...You give them too much credit of thinking ahead, they don't. Labels would release anything if there was a way to make a buck. It was the majors who released Sex Pistols anyway. The problem with my solution is not John's message -- whatever that message might be, but the fact that they can't make a buck on John's message since the album would be free.Eugenia Lolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841412747426733061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-62413371154308494102011-12-18T18:26:50.077-08:002011-12-18T18:26:50.077-08:00The problem with your theoretical solution is that...The problem with your theoretical solution is that no major label would ever release John's music because John's message, his very philosophy, is entirely antithetical to their own. Not only antithetical but threatening and dangerous. John says 'down with people who hoard wealth' and the big labels say 'We want to hoard wealth' So even if it was possible, it could never happen.<br /><br />The Wire is great, I'm actually watching it now and I'm blown away by how non-fictional it all seemsMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-21750080466318721232011-12-18T17:42:55.537-08:002011-12-18T17:42:55.537-08:00Thanks for the replies. I also posted that on maus...Thanks for the replies. I also posted that on mausspace btw.<br /><br />>"If John had a way to reach out and share his music to people living in the ghettos or even just lower/working class America"<br /><br />There is a way to do this: he must make a good album, with a major-label promotional push, and he must give it away for free (e.g. a Creative Commons license). Thing is, all that would have to come out of his own pocket, so it makes it impossible to realize.<br /><br />I've watched The Wire btw, it's the most perfectly-written show I ever watched. Except the social commentary, the actual script of it was perfect. I'm usually good at finding plot holes, but The Wire was bullet-proof.Eugenia Lolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841412747426733061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-91832153035202508242011-12-18T17:19:10.043-08:002011-12-18T17:19:10.043-08:00Really the only person who could "change the ...Really the only person who could "change the world" right now seems to be Justin Bieber. Our fate rests upon the shoulders of soulless idiot. <br /><br />But hey, at least his dubstep album will be interesting to see how it's ripples effect pop music (however something tells me this will not be a positive change)Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-54635845314777721702011-12-18T17:10:28.271-08:002011-12-18T17:10:28.271-08:00Your last point is a very valid one. He's has ...Your last point is a very valid one. He's has matured, and he is also seemingly much happier now than he was. If I had to choose between him being miserable and making better music, or the opposite, I'd definitely choose the latter.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-81939650699595357042011-12-18T17:06:21.896-08:002011-12-18T17:06:21.896-08:00"I don't believe society can change fast ..."I don't believe society can change fast because of pop culture, but pop culture DOES change it -- just very slowly. Personally, I see our society as a "living mass", which matures and changes overtime. Nobody matures or changes overnight."<br /><br />An individual is much different than several million people from different backgrounds, statuses, cultures etc, all of whom are selfish and many of whom hate each other (note: America). It would require a very, very, very insane amount of harmony or blind luck or whatever to change everyone's or even the 'majority's' mind. That's why I feel that the end result is just not achievable, whereas an individual can transcend or become enlightened relatively easily.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-64248169088793144702011-12-18T17:00:21.180-08:002011-12-18T17:00:21.180-08:00"However, that song was very personal. It was..."However, that song was very personal. It wasn't as much a sum-up of our "situation today" as some of his songs later would be about. At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference if someone prefers "introverted" songs, or "extroverted" ones. If someone wants to listen to the artist-person express his very personal life, or listen to the artist express his world around him/her."<br /><br />This is very true and I'm sure everyone takes their own subjective thing from his or anyone's work. I'm sure I came off pretty judgmental and arrogant with my bit about 'buffoons dancing around' to John's music, but it's only my opinion. I feel it would be similar to hearing Erik Satie's Trois Gymnopedies's played ironically over a scene in a teen comedy or something. It would be a travesty, you know? I'm sure a lot of people actually prefer John's recent work, I'm just saying "I feel it isn't as 'good' and here is why." All art can be considered subjective, but it works both ways with appreciation of art.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-13821593760537664722011-12-18T16:53:35.948-08:002011-12-18T16:53:35.948-08:00I hate to admit, but I'm not a Star Trek fan. ...I hate to admit, but I'm not a Star Trek fan. Not out of dislike for the show, just never got around to watching it. That being said, I've heard that TNG is a wonderful show from many good friends, and your anecdote brings to mind one of my own regarding pop culture and social commentary. The Wire is one of the most well-written, smart examples of social commentary I can think of in the last 20 years. It is not heavy handled but its message is communicated clearly. However, a large portion of America (right now specifically) is in poverty, and may not even have a single television, nevertheless cable with HBO to watch it. Because of this, the message is not being communicated to the people who need it the most. If you'd like I could find statistics, but I'm sure you know the majority of our country isn't doing very well economically at the present, and this affects education and a vast number of different other things). So while you may have been greatly affected by TNG or I may have had my mind opened by The Wire....we are already educated, we already think critically and analyze the world around us. If John had a way to reach out and share his music to people living in the ghettos or even just lower/working class America, he might be able to achieve something. Unfortunately, his audience is mainly an anglo-oriented one, mainly young people from middle to upper class backgrounds. <br /><br />Do not get me wrong, social commentary through art is a great thing, and yes it does little by little achieve things, but it has never brought mass enlightenment or even mass change. John's earlier work had a good balance between social commentary and more personal stuff, and that was fine. But my point in writing this article was that I feel the music has suffered because he isn't as sincere about his his direction as his old one.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-75714544390660629882011-12-18T16:32:04.240-08:002011-12-18T16:32:04.240-08:00Eugenia, thank you for taking the time to give suc...Eugenia, thank you for taking the time to give such a good reply. I'll try to respond in parts as well, because there's a lot to tackle.<br /><br />First, I should have been more clear. A lot of John's work is aimed more at causing social, individual and cultural revolution, but I feel these are inextricably intertwined with politics in the grand scheme. You mention Marx, Smith, and Kant - I feel if someone really wanted to better themselves and they would read the source 'text' where John obviously gets a lot of his inspiration from. People do not generally listen to a record to expand their worldview, and I feel these types of people are the one who most in need of 'enlightenment,' and also the ones least likely to experience any significant change from listening to a pop song. <br /><br />The punk movement came as close as I think we're ever going to get to bringing about cultural revolution, yet even so, it's true 'members' make up a very, very small minority of the world. There is also the fact that a lot of people who listen to punk, do so out of vain or shallow purposes (ie. fashion, or perhaps they are already pariahs and do so out of spite for conformity but don't necessarily 'get' it, or truly embody it)<br /><br />It's a classic biblical David and Goliath scenario, only there is no metaphorical rock to be thrown. So although minor victories may be won, I don't think that any amount of art or truth or whatever can topple such massive and complex machinery controlling the world at present. The corporations in power make the British or Romans governments of the past look tiny in comparison, and it's going to take more than a handful (or a thousand or even a million) of people optimistically saying 'Yeah! We can transcend! We can overcome!'Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623800964811305674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-87880788589587275642011-12-18T15:45:50.989-08:002011-12-18T15:45:50.989-08:00As a technologist myself, I'd have to contradi...As a technologist myself, I'd have to contradict John and say that technology is a more direct vernacular of today than pop. Look at the iPhone. As much as the iPhone has a lot of political baggage behind it (from capitalism to security, cloud etc), it HAS changed the USA faster than any pop album or movie, or politician has. The way people do stuff today is different than pre-2007. The very fact that we do things a bit differently now because of iOS/Android, does lead to new schools of thought for the individual, even if these changes happen subconsciously.<br /><br />So as a conclusion, I don't believe society can change fast because of pop culture, but pop culture DOES change it -- just very slowly. Personally, I see our society as a "living mass", which matures and changes overtime. Nobody matures or changes overnight. If that happens, it would be because a *tragic* event took place (World War I/II anyone?). So capitalism today, or any other thing we're subjected to, it's just our current test. Eventually -- should this planet won't explode on us by our own stupidity -- we will get over and around it, and move on to the next challenge. And when that happens, DIFFERENT kind of music and pop culture will be needed to express and describe that kind of new world.<br /><br />The fact that John's music moved from "personal" to "rhetoric" as you called it, it's because John himself matured. He's not 20 anymore, chasing girls every chance he gets. He's a grown man, truly troubled "about all the bad things in the world" as he put it. And this is reflected in his music. Personally, I prefer his latest album to his older ones exactly because of all that.<br /><br />I think that the only way to really change the world overnight and challenge people's ethics and opinions in a snap, would be to have aliens landed in Manhattan. And even then, most Americans would probably prefer to watch the "show" via their TV sets, even if they live two blocks down the road. Sign o' the times my friend.<br /><br />Sorry for the 3-part comment btw, Blogspot wouldn't let me publish it in one-go.Eugenia Lolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841412747426733061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-21651304657968584962011-12-18T15:44:52.740-08:002011-12-18T15:44:52.740-08:00In the world of music, I think Nirvana had a lot o...In the world of music, I think Nirvana had a lot of similar "mind gripping" on a lot of people. The grunge attitude still lives among 30-40 year olds today, who are the people who are currently running our next-gen companies. So saying that Nirvana was not influential is not true, even if Nirvana did not introduce any new political thought.<br /><br />In my case, about music, I listened to mainstream pop/rock until 2009. I spent 35 years of my life listening to that cr*p. But if it wasn't for the RIAA lawsuits, who made me revolt against the big-4 labels (even if I never pirate myself), I would have never turned into indie music. It took me a year to get used to these "Pitchfork sounds" as I call them. In the beginning, I didn't find anything easy to listen to. But eventually, it worked (starting with Washed Out). And when this change happened, I could never go back to "easy", nothing-to-imagine-or-explore tunes. The fact that my mind had to "work" more to get pleasure out of more difficult music, is in itself progress. Because around the same time I started thinking more about more stuff. So while a no specific band or album "changed me", truly contemporary music *overall* did. The trends themselves is so "now", that they describe our world. Not what happens in our world (that's why John said "lyrics don't matter"), but rather the sound of modern indie music is how our world feels if you had to express it with music. If you were taking vacations in the planet Risa, and an alien asked you "how does it *feel* to be living on Earth", it'd be probably a piece of music you would play for him, not show him a picture of NY. A plain city picture only shows how a part of our planet looks like, not how it feels though.<br /><br />Being part of such music trends is enough to make you ENGAGE with the world more, because you understand the world more, because it's "described" to you. You understand its essence.<br /><br />As for "Just wait til next year", it's both the most "mainstream pop" song John ever wrote, and the most personal one possibly. I absolutely feel his angst when he recorded it. In fact, I even tweeted about that fact when I first heard the song. It was one of the very few songs that I had heard in my life where what I was listening to, was exactly how the artist felt at the time. Extremely expressive, piercing through my heart with his semi-crying voice. I got shivers.<br /><br />However, that song was very personal. It wasn't as much a sum-up of our "situation today" as some of his songs later would be about. At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference if someone prefers "introverted" songs, or "extroverted" ones. If someone wants to listen to the artist-person express his very personal life, or listen to the artist express his world around him/her. That's a matter of aesthetics, which whole books have been written about but I haven't read (but I'm vaguely familiar with). ;-)Eugenia Lolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841412747426733061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2066741418777541055.post-72200989524547203812011-12-18T15:43:24.278-08:002011-12-18T15:43:24.278-08:00Beautifully written Matt, thank you. Not sure if I...Beautifully written Matt, thank you. Not sure if I agree though with everything. Here's the thing.<br /><br />John has said that he still awaits "pop" to introduce us to some new, radical thought. I agree with you that a piece of music can't change the world, and that politics and art should stay apart. However, music can influence our world. Even Marx's or Smith's or Kant's books didn't change the world overnight, but they did influence things down the line. Maybe we won't even be here when this radical change takes place because of some obscure pop song, or maybe we would be too old to realize it happened. But that change could have come, because of a piece of music, a music video, a movie, or again, a book.<br /><br />As John said in a more recent interview, our society changes "just about", little by little at a time, taking a different direction each time. It takes a French Revolution to change things overnight (and even then it took the French 30 years to get it right after that revolution), and such a thing was only done once in our history. All other changes happen gradually.<br /><br />So overall, our pop culture will and has influenced our society, and it will continue to do so. Let me give you a personal example. While I like to think, over-think, and philosophize about stuff in the shower, my parents are not exactly of that lot of people. When I was growing up I had that need to talk about complex issues with my (few) friends, or my parents. But none could understand what the heck I was talking about, neither they were interesting about these issues in the first place ("shopping" was the only thing in my friends' minds). As a young geek teenage girl, in rural Greece surrounded by goats, I needed to be molded, to have a mentor, but I had none.<br /><br />And then, Star Trek: The Next Generation happened.<br /><br />A lot of very interesting concepts were flourished in my head, or introduced to me, after watching some of these episodes. There were some social commentary episodes where they were teaching something very valuable. Some of my opinions changed about stuff, while others were re-enforced. But the bottomline is, ST:TNG *changed me*, and it became my father & mother, in a way that my real parents never could.Eugenia Lolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841412747426733061noreply@blogger.com